on Jun 17, 2019 11:25:56 GMT
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2019 12:57:39 GMT by Admin
- Introduction -
Hello.
I felt it was necessary to help all the Commanders, and Generals of Kudasai know exactly what my thinking was relating to the recent 'purge' that was initiated the day PnkTrky left Kudasai. After writing this post I have decided I will make it super easy for those interested to access it, by posting it in a public area of this forum, so you don't even have to sign up to this forum to read it.
PnkTrky was a Commander, so him leaving was a massive loss to the guild.
However, it was not his leaving the guild that I particularly had a problem with.
I can prove this because Darha also left Kudasai, not long before PnkTrky did.
When I say 'purge', I am referring to a form of kicking spree or mass kick that was triggered.
<-PNKTRKY - HUMANS1-6->
- Explanation -
The members that were kicked from Kudasai were: Mmmdro, Mmmdro's alt character D2Pally, TacoScience and xXwaseemXx.
<-TACOS DEFENCE OF PROFANITY->
<-MMDROS WITHDRAWALS VERSUS DEPOSITS->
The reasons they were kicked vary; Mmmdro was kicked because I felt he was withdrawing too much silver from the open treasury. There was not a well defined numerical recommended withdrawal frequency, but the reason one would need to be created, was because of the regularity of Mmmdro's withdrawals, when compared to his deposits. It was over 900k withdrawal with 0k deposits. That ratio was unacceptable, especially because if the amount available to 70-80 members of a guild is 100k in 24 hours, when there is accidentally 142k, Mmmdro removing 142k means that even 100k is not enough for him, yet the 100k is supposed to be shared and divided up. On top of Mmmdro's withdrawals, he had made 2 statements that I classified as potentially damaging to the guild's progress or success, and I considered them misdemeanours. In a game of soccer, the statements would have been given a 'yellow card'. Usually in soccer, 2 x yellow card = 1 x red card, and that means a player is removed from the match, or 'sent off'. So consider Mmmdro was already on a watchlist for his withdrawals, then received 2 x yellow cards. Underneath that, were at least 8 other reasons that are nowhere near important enough to be considered 'reasons for a kick', as they were what I would call behavioural concerns, but they ultimately amount to the fact I felt he was not necessarily ideal for the type of community I want to build with Kudasai.
Kudasai has only 1 rule since it's inception, and that is: "No griefing." This is something I have explained on the forum, and might have mentioned on our discord server in the #values channel.
kudasai-albion.boards.net/thread/9/code-conduct
Last Edit: May 18, 2019 at 12:02pm by Admin
- code-conduct
Whether it is in game, or on discord in the random chat channel (#general), you can say whatever you want to there.
Please be considerate towards your fellow guild members. Profanity is allowed, but no griefing.
What is 'griefing'? Basically being disrespectful to other people, trying intentionally to hurt their feelings.
xXwaseemXx was kicked because his withdrawal pattern, behaviour and apparent interest in the guild changed after his friend 420ghost666 was kicked for excessive profanity & disrespectful conduct towards the guild members. I apologise that I do not have screenshots to demonstrate this, but the best I can explain is waseem was doing very well in the guild before 420ghost666 was recruited by waseem, and 420ghost666's behaviour got him kicked within 5 minutes of joining; and after that waseem would log in with a reduced frequency, contribute less, interact less with other guild members, and would start to withdraw a full 100k on several occassions. Not as often as Mmmdro, but it was going in that direction. As it was not what I would consider a definitive assessment of the situation, waseem was only on a watchlist/warning/1 yellow card stge. At this time, THELOLO is ALSO on a watchlist for excessive withdrawal and general inactivity, and questionable loyalty as a member of the wassem, 420ghost666, thelolo trio; but thelolo was not kicked during the purge, because his only current major flaw is inactivity (which will be addressed on the 30th June 2019).
- The 'purge' -
PnkTrky triggered a purge. Him leaving the guild was unexpected, and so I whispered at him to try and understand his reasons. From the very moment I whispered at him, he responded with: "yes?" That is how I would expect someone to respond if I were bothering them, or calling them too many times. I have always hated it when people respond to me that way, when it is the first time I have called to them in an hour or more.
How do I think somebody SHOULD respond?
If you say "hi" or "penguin" or anything to get my attention when you need to speak to me, I would not respond with "yes?", I would respond with: "hi" or "hello" or "whats up".
Now I DO understand that things like sarcasm can be hard to read in online communications; not only sarcasm, but generally emotion can be easily misunderstood, which is generally part of the reason I would withhold judgement on a singular piece of evidence counting towards a conclusion, but it isn't something I completely ignore. Let's assume that raised the bar of conflict by 1%.
I asked him if he meant to leave the guild, since I wasn't sure if he might have left by accident or something. He confirmed he meant to leave, and it wasn't an accident or misclick. I then asked him why, to understand with an open-mind what was wrong. He made several comments which you will be able to see impartially in the screenshots, The one that comes to mind is "you don't have enough balls". This is a phrase commonly meaning "lacking bravery".
I can only assume this means he believes I am scared to take my character to the black zone.
I have to question what determines the difference between 'fear' and 'lack of interest'.
I do not like going to church, but I am there literally every week. If I don't want to go, one might conclude that I am scared of being in a church because I don't want to hear the message. Or, it could just be that I do not agree with it. I am not sure that fear is the most accurate definition, since I allow myself to be there anyway, in order to assist with playing the piano there. I don't believe in the religious beliefs declared there, but I put up with it for several hours a week. I am not scared to be in a church, but if I had it my way I would go there less often than my character currently goes to the black zone.
So PnkTrky's assessment of me lacking bravery, is quite ridiculous and ignorant. I was very surprised to see him speak that way, considering I met him in the Help chat and he was being very considerate by helping new players, by answering their questions and offering advice to them related to Albion Online.
So after him saying this to me, my thinking was that there is some current confusion that needs to be addressed, especially because recently we have had Sabatoor, Yeduke and BetterThanos leave Kudasai. These 3 players used to do dungeon parties together quite regularly, and I didn't go with them. I had been to a dungeon with Yeduke and PnkTrky once before, but that was in a blue zone. I had recently been accused of being a liar, for a statement about Sabatoor that was misunderstood by many, as the screenshot floated around the Albion community. As I recognise that I am unable to clarify the screenshot to the entire community, I knew that there was a possiblity more players would misunderstand it, but my thinking is that - if someone is willing to judge me on inconclusive evidence, and chooses to leave the guild or judge me negatively without even having a conversation with me to understand what I have in mind, then I wouldn't want to be associated with them anyway.
I will post the screenshot for clarity here.
- Misunderstanding #1: Sabatoor -
<-SABATOOR APPARENT LIE->
"about the guy who ranted at me for dying in black zone"
Many players are super offended for me saying that, because they see it as a lie, as apparently, Sabatoor did not die in the black zone, within 5 minutes of him ranting at me about putting Kudasai into a larger alliance.
Okay.
So let's assume I was wrong, Sabatoor did not die in the black zone within 5 minutes of him ranting at me, not 50 minutes, not 5 hours, not 5 days, nor 5 weeks.
The fact is, Sabatoor likes to spend a lot of his time in the black zone. That is something he will probably not deny if you ask him.
Tell me this, what is the percentage chance of a player dying if they go to the black zone every day for a month? Would they ever die? Furthermore, has Sabatoor EVER had his character die in the black zone?
If he has NEVER died in the black zone, then my assumption that he died in the black zone is incorrect, and I would then owe him an apology for saying that.
On the contrary, if Sabatoor has EVER died in the black zone, even once, then I was right. Sabatoor has experienced a death in the black zone, and so my assumption that he has experienced this before was not incorrect.
You see, you can either take my statement as though I was suggesting that he died in the black zone and then immediately started ranting at me; or you can take it as though Sabatoor has died in the black zone before, and since he does not want this to happen again, wanted Kudasai to have increased security by joining a larger alliance, to provide gatherers with more protection in the black zone.
We are able to check if a player has died before, but it wouldn't show what cluster they died on, only who the killer was. Otherwise, I would be more than willing to check the killboard to verify if Sabatoor has died in the black zone before or not.
If you wish to ask Sabatoor if he has ever died in the black zone before, please remember: If Sabatoor says yes, then I was right, if Sabatoor says no, then I was wrong.
Isn't this trivial?
Which player never dies in the black zone?
The very fact that I will happilly tell you that the character PenguinSniper has died in the black zone maybe 50 times, shows that it is not even an important detail. I would assume that every player, all 200,000 of us, will die in the black zone at least once. I would be quite shocked if Sabatoor will tell you he never has.
Isn't this ridiculous? Who would have such an ego that they cannot bear the idea of being accused of such a fail of 'dying in the black zone', like the other 199,999 players.
Oh no, Sabatoor is ABOVE that.
- Misunderstanding #2: PenguinSniper -
"i told him "i have no interest in the black zone"
From reading that line, the average person would understandably assume that is clear evidence that PenguinSniper has no interest in the black zone. It's evidence, is it not?
Okay well, fortunately, we have people like yourselves, who are willing to gather more information and be patient enough to understand others rather than judge them on a single statement.
The most important question at this point would be: "PenguinSniper, you said you have no interest in the blackzone, is this true?"
To which I would reply: "No, it is not true." (depending on who is reading/listening. Some Kudasai/MMXIX information is Classified.)
Then, the most important question would logically be: "Then why did you say that?"
My response would be: "To inspire Sabatoor to get the f*** out of my guild, so that I could go continue my efforts to prepare for ZvZ events in the future, allowing the MMXIX alliance to take territories in the black zone, AND defend them."
Look, I'm not gonna keep writing in this way, alright? We have ways to communicate, and I expect people with above average intelligence to ask me if they are concerned about something and need me to clarify it. The other line that was apparently misunderstood in that screenshot was me claiming Sabatoor wanted to "have saftey in black zone".
Okay, so let's assume I was wrong, and Sabatoor did not want safety in the black zone.
Looking through my screenshots, I have managed to find two quite important ones:
1. The very moment Sabatoor started ranting at me about his demands for kudasai
2. Me explaining my "no interest in the black zone" statement to others
So at this point I will post the screenshots and move on.
www.sendspace.com/file/f4va54
Hello.
I felt it was necessary to help all the Commanders, and Generals of Kudasai know exactly what my thinking was relating to the recent 'purge' that was initiated the day PnkTrky left Kudasai. After writing this post I have decided I will make it super easy for those interested to access it, by posting it in a public area of this forum, so you don't even have to sign up to this forum to read it.
PnkTrky was a Commander, so him leaving was a massive loss to the guild.
However, it was not his leaving the guild that I particularly had a problem with.
I can prove this because Darha also left Kudasai, not long before PnkTrky did.
When I say 'purge', I am referring to a form of kicking spree or mass kick that was triggered.
<-PNKTRKY - HUMANS1-6->
- Explanation -
The members that were kicked from Kudasai were: Mmmdro, Mmmdro's alt character D2Pally, TacoScience and xXwaseemXx.
<-TACOS DEFENCE OF PROFANITY->
<-MMDROS WITHDRAWALS VERSUS DEPOSITS->
The reasons they were kicked vary; Mmmdro was kicked because I felt he was withdrawing too much silver from the open treasury. There was not a well defined numerical recommended withdrawal frequency, but the reason one would need to be created, was because of the regularity of Mmmdro's withdrawals, when compared to his deposits. It was over 900k withdrawal with 0k deposits. That ratio was unacceptable, especially because if the amount available to 70-80 members of a guild is 100k in 24 hours, when there is accidentally 142k, Mmmdro removing 142k means that even 100k is not enough for him, yet the 100k is supposed to be shared and divided up. On top of Mmmdro's withdrawals, he had made 2 statements that I classified as potentially damaging to the guild's progress or success, and I considered them misdemeanours. In a game of soccer, the statements would have been given a 'yellow card'. Usually in soccer, 2 x yellow card = 1 x red card, and that means a player is removed from the match, or 'sent off'. So consider Mmmdro was already on a watchlist for his withdrawals, then received 2 x yellow cards. Underneath that, were at least 8 other reasons that are nowhere near important enough to be considered 'reasons for a kick', as they were what I would call behavioural concerns, but they ultimately amount to the fact I felt he was not necessarily ideal for the type of community I want to build with Kudasai.
Kudasai has only 1 rule since it's inception, and that is: "No griefing." This is something I have explained on the forum, and might have mentioned on our discord server in the #values channel.
kudasai-albion.boards.net/thread/9/code-conduct
Last Edit: May 18, 2019 at 12:02pm by Admin
- code-conduct
Whether it is in game, or on discord in the random chat channel (#general), you can say whatever you want to there.
Please be considerate towards your fellow guild members. Profanity is allowed, but no griefing.
What is 'griefing'? Basically being disrespectful to other people, trying intentionally to hurt their feelings.
xXwaseemXx was kicked because his withdrawal pattern, behaviour and apparent interest in the guild changed after his friend 420ghost666 was kicked for excessive profanity & disrespectful conduct towards the guild members. I apologise that I do not have screenshots to demonstrate this, but the best I can explain is waseem was doing very well in the guild before 420ghost666 was recruited by waseem, and 420ghost666's behaviour got him kicked within 5 minutes of joining; and after that waseem would log in with a reduced frequency, contribute less, interact less with other guild members, and would start to withdraw a full 100k on several occassions. Not as often as Mmmdro, but it was going in that direction. As it was not what I would consider a definitive assessment of the situation, waseem was only on a watchlist/warning/1 yellow card stge. At this time, THELOLO is ALSO on a watchlist for excessive withdrawal and general inactivity, and questionable loyalty as a member of the wassem, 420ghost666, thelolo trio; but thelolo was not kicked during the purge, because his only current major flaw is inactivity (which will be addressed on the 30th June 2019).
- The 'purge' -
PnkTrky triggered a purge. Him leaving the guild was unexpected, and so I whispered at him to try and understand his reasons. From the very moment I whispered at him, he responded with: "yes?" That is how I would expect someone to respond if I were bothering them, or calling them too many times. I have always hated it when people respond to me that way, when it is the first time I have called to them in an hour or more.
How do I think somebody SHOULD respond?
If you say "hi" or "penguin" or anything to get my attention when you need to speak to me, I would not respond with "yes?", I would respond with: "hi" or "hello" or "whats up".
Now I DO understand that things like sarcasm can be hard to read in online communications; not only sarcasm, but generally emotion can be easily misunderstood, which is generally part of the reason I would withhold judgement on a singular piece of evidence counting towards a conclusion, but it isn't something I completely ignore. Let's assume that raised the bar of conflict by 1%.
I asked him if he meant to leave the guild, since I wasn't sure if he might have left by accident or something. He confirmed he meant to leave, and it wasn't an accident or misclick. I then asked him why, to understand with an open-mind what was wrong. He made several comments which you will be able to see impartially in the screenshots, The one that comes to mind is "you don't have enough balls". This is a phrase commonly meaning "lacking bravery".
I can only assume this means he believes I am scared to take my character to the black zone.
I have to question what determines the difference between 'fear' and 'lack of interest'.
I do not like going to church, but I am there literally every week. If I don't want to go, one might conclude that I am scared of being in a church because I don't want to hear the message. Or, it could just be that I do not agree with it. I am not sure that fear is the most accurate definition, since I allow myself to be there anyway, in order to assist with playing the piano there. I don't believe in the religious beliefs declared there, but I put up with it for several hours a week. I am not scared to be in a church, but if I had it my way I would go there less often than my character currently goes to the black zone.
So PnkTrky's assessment of me lacking bravery, is quite ridiculous and ignorant. I was very surprised to see him speak that way, considering I met him in the Help chat and he was being very considerate by helping new players, by answering their questions and offering advice to them related to Albion Online.
So after him saying this to me, my thinking was that there is some current confusion that needs to be addressed, especially because recently we have had Sabatoor, Yeduke and BetterThanos leave Kudasai. These 3 players used to do dungeon parties together quite regularly, and I didn't go with them. I had been to a dungeon with Yeduke and PnkTrky once before, but that was in a blue zone. I had recently been accused of being a liar, for a statement about Sabatoor that was misunderstood by many, as the screenshot floated around the Albion community. As I recognise that I am unable to clarify the screenshot to the entire community, I knew that there was a possiblity more players would misunderstand it, but my thinking is that - if someone is willing to judge me on inconclusive evidence, and chooses to leave the guild or judge me negatively without even having a conversation with me to understand what I have in mind, then I wouldn't want to be associated with them anyway.
I will post the screenshot for clarity here.
- Misunderstanding #1: Sabatoor -
<-SABATOOR APPARENT LIE->
"about the guy who ranted at me for dying in black zone"
Many players are super offended for me saying that, because they see it as a lie, as apparently, Sabatoor did not die in the black zone, within 5 minutes of him ranting at me about putting Kudasai into a larger alliance.
Okay.
So let's assume I was wrong, Sabatoor did not die in the black zone within 5 minutes of him ranting at me, not 50 minutes, not 5 hours, not 5 days, nor 5 weeks.
The fact is, Sabatoor likes to spend a lot of his time in the black zone. That is something he will probably not deny if you ask him.
Tell me this, what is the percentage chance of a player dying if they go to the black zone every day for a month? Would they ever die? Furthermore, has Sabatoor EVER had his character die in the black zone?
If he has NEVER died in the black zone, then my assumption that he died in the black zone is incorrect, and I would then owe him an apology for saying that.
On the contrary, if Sabatoor has EVER died in the black zone, even once, then I was right. Sabatoor has experienced a death in the black zone, and so my assumption that he has experienced this before was not incorrect.
You see, you can either take my statement as though I was suggesting that he died in the black zone and then immediately started ranting at me; or you can take it as though Sabatoor has died in the black zone before, and since he does not want this to happen again, wanted Kudasai to have increased security by joining a larger alliance, to provide gatherers with more protection in the black zone.
We are able to check if a player has died before, but it wouldn't show what cluster they died on, only who the killer was. Otherwise, I would be more than willing to check the killboard to verify if Sabatoor has died in the black zone before or not.
If you wish to ask Sabatoor if he has ever died in the black zone before, please remember: If Sabatoor says yes, then I was right, if Sabatoor says no, then I was wrong.
Isn't this trivial?
Which player never dies in the black zone?
The very fact that I will happilly tell you that the character PenguinSniper has died in the black zone maybe 50 times, shows that it is not even an important detail. I would assume that every player, all 200,000 of us, will die in the black zone at least once. I would be quite shocked if Sabatoor will tell you he never has.
Isn't this ridiculous? Who would have such an ego that they cannot bear the idea of being accused of such a fail of 'dying in the black zone', like the other 199,999 players.
Oh no, Sabatoor is ABOVE that.
- Misunderstanding #2: PenguinSniper -
"i told him "i have no interest in the black zone"
From reading that line, the average person would understandably assume that is clear evidence that PenguinSniper has no interest in the black zone. It's evidence, is it not?
Okay well, fortunately, we have people like yourselves, who are willing to gather more information and be patient enough to understand others rather than judge them on a single statement.
The most important question at this point would be: "PenguinSniper, you said you have no interest in the blackzone, is this true?"
To which I would reply: "No, it is not true." (depending on who is reading/listening. Some Kudasai/MMXIX information is Classified.)
Then, the most important question would logically be: "Then why did you say that?"
My response would be: "To inspire Sabatoor to get the f*** out of my guild, so that I could go continue my efforts to prepare for ZvZ events in the future, allowing the MMXIX alliance to take territories in the black zone, AND defend them."
Look, I'm not gonna keep writing in this way, alright? We have ways to communicate, and I expect people with above average intelligence to ask me if they are concerned about something and need me to clarify it. The other line that was apparently misunderstood in that screenshot was me claiming Sabatoor wanted to "have saftey in black zone".
Okay, so let's assume I was wrong, and Sabatoor did not want safety in the black zone.
Looking through my screenshots, I have managed to find two quite important ones:
1. The very moment Sabatoor started ranting at me about his demands for kudasai
2. Me explaining my "no interest in the black zone" statement to others
So at this point I will post the screenshots and move on.
www.sendspace.com/file/f4va54